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	<title>Comments on: Mary Hartman, Mary Hartman! The Kansas City Kiddie Caper.</title>
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	<link>http://www.flds.ws/2009/11/18/mary-hartman-mary-hartman-the-kansas-city-kiddie-caper/</link>
	<description>Defending Due Process, Religious Liberty, Human Rights, Constitutional Rights, and Freedom for the FLDS Community and All Of Us!</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 12 Mar 2010 22:39:08 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Bill</title>
		<link>http://www.flds.ws/2009/11/18/mary-hartman-mary-hartman-the-kansas-city-kiddie-caper/#comment-65590</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 23:25:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.flds.ws/?p=1606#comment-65590</guid>
		<description>Judge Andrew Napolitano on the attack and kidnapping.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuIzwOgQ1_w</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Judge Andrew Napolitano on the attack and kidnapping.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuIzwOgQ1_w" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuIzwOgQ1_w</a></p>
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		<title>By: Cupcake</title>
		<link>http://www.flds.ws/2009/11/18/mary-hartman-mary-hartman-the-kansas-city-kiddie-caper/#comment-65586</link>
		<dc:creator>Cupcake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 21:55:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.flds.ws/?p=1606#comment-65586</guid>
		<description>According to the Kansas City Star, Darrell Mohler (the great uncle from Florida) is scheduled to appear in court in Missouri on Tuesday morning. 

Since the alleged 26 year old victim is claiming to have suppressed memories, I am wondering if LE or the courts are aware of the AMA's policy (and APA's policy) that recovered memories are unreliable and should not be assumed to be true.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>According to the Kansas City Star, Darrell Mohler (the great uncle from Florida) is scheduled to appear in court in Missouri on Tuesday morning. </p>
<p>Since the alleged 26 year old victim is claiming to have suppressed memories, I am wondering if LE or the courts are aware of the AMA&#8217;s policy (and APA&#8217;s policy) that recovered memories are unreliable and should not be assumed to be true.</p>
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		<title>By: Cupcake</title>
		<link>http://www.flds.ws/2009/11/18/mary-hartman-mary-hartman-the-kansas-city-kiddie-caper/#comment-65546</link>
		<dc:creator>Cupcake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 16:36:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.flds.ws/?p=1606#comment-65546</guid>
		<description>Re: Mohler story  

I have decided to reserve judgment until the police have completed their investigation. However, I think some of the statements that the women have made sound a bit far-fetched (killing the 300 lb. man,  the girl kept in the basement for years, etc.)

What surprised me the most was the former LDS bishop's failing to notify the authorities about the mother's complaints of child abuse. There is no mention of it in the Salt Lake Tribune. You would think the bishop's failure to notify LE and CPS (and the story about the mock weddings involving children) would have the KS clucking like hens. Where's Brook Adams when you need her?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: Mohler story  </p>
<p>I have decided to reserve judgment until the police have completed their investigation. However, I think some of the statements that the women have made sound a bit far-fetched (killing the 300 lb. man,  the girl kept in the basement for years, etc.)</p>
<p>What surprised me the most was the former LDS bishop&#8217;s failing to notify the authorities about the mother&#8217;s complaints of child abuse. There is no mention of it in the Salt Lake Tribune. You would think the bishop&#8217;s failure to notify LE and CPS (and the story about the mock weddings involving children) would have the KS clucking like hens. Where&#8217;s Brook Adams when you need her?</p>
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		<title>By: Julie</title>
		<link>http://www.flds.ws/2009/11/18/mary-hartman-mary-hartman-the-kansas-city-kiddie-caper/#comment-65531</link>
		<dc:creator>Julie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 14:30:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.flds.ws/?p=1606#comment-65531</guid>
		<description>I think what Cupcake was referring to was this:

&lt;i&gt;Col. Ben Kenney of the Jackson County, Mo., sheriff's department said Wednesday that several booklets found at the home were about incest.

"The thing that was unusual was the title and the references," he said. "They were very explicit. ... It was all on sex with family members."

Sandra Mohler, the wife of Burrell Mohler Sr., told detectives she found some of the material "that made reference to incest activity among family members"&lt;/i&gt;

Perhaps the word "references" led Cupcake to conclude that Mohler wrote notes on the material, when in fact it was just some loose phrasing in the warrant.

Source: http://www.kansascity.com/437/story/1578045.html

I think it will be interesting if police discover the same scenes in these booklets that the accusers think they are remembering.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think what Cupcake was referring to was this:</p>
<p><i>Col. Ben Kenney of the Jackson County, Mo., sheriff&#8217;s department said Wednesday that several booklets found at the home were about incest.</p>
<p>&#8220;The thing that was unusual was the title and the references,&#8221; he said. &#8220;They were very explicit. &#8230; It was all on sex with family members.&#8221;</p>
<p>Sandra Mohler, the wife of Burrell Mohler Sr., told detectives she found some of the material &#8220;that made reference to incest activity among family members&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Perhaps the word &#8220;references&#8221; led Cupcake to conclude that Mohler wrote notes on the material, when in fact it was just some loose phrasing in the warrant.</p>
<p>Source: <a href="http://www.kansascity.com/437/story/1578045.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.kansascity.com/437/story/1578045.html</a></p>
<p>I think it will be interesting if police discover the same scenes in these booklets that the accusers think they are remembering.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill</title>
		<link>http://www.flds.ws/2009/11/18/mary-hartman-mary-hartman-the-kansas-city-kiddie-caper/#comment-65525</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 13:28:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.flds.ws/?p=1606#comment-65525</guid>
		<description>"Repressed memory" was a convenient way for the lawyers to get over the hurdle of the Statute of Limitations so they could sue the pants off the Catholic Church. Nothing more, nothing less.

It's interesting to note that the only reason the main accuser in the Great Mineola Sex Club Fantasy, Cantrell, got off was because he could not be legally charged with raping two little girls in his care while in California.

Now, the State of Texas has given him custody of three of the Mineola children, two of them girls, so he can resume his favorite pastime, all with the blessings of CPS and CASA. (If he thinks that is either Libel or Slander, perhaps he could hire Natalie to sue my ass off?) 

As for the Missouri Caper; when it comes to the goons making statements, I'm reminded of a few they recently made.

"The children have an extraordinary amount of broken bones. These children have obviously been subjected to physical abuse." (Cockerell on the floor of the Texas Legislature, never recanted, never apologized for.

"These are the worst child pornography pictures I have ever seen." (Some flatfoot concerning two little girls in the bathtub taken by their mother in Tennessee.) 

"Trust me David, I swear on my mother's grave, you are not going to be attacked." (The Sheriff of Waco talking to David Koresh just before they were all burned to death by the FBI and ATF.)

What they originally claim, and what reality turns out to be is generally two completely separate events. Only a cop can look at a rainbow and see Anarchy.

When is the last time you answered the phone and wrote a note on the closest thing to you?

If the notes end up being "Take Sally to the dentist at 10:00" I suggest that the note does not mean that their grandfather plans to rip all the kids teeth out for some S&#038;M fun.

Show me a 300 hundred pound dead man. Show me notes written by children and buried for 15 or 20 years, show me ANY pictures or video's of these children involved in anything elicit, and THEN I'll pat the goons on the back. 

Until then, it's bullshit stacked upon more bullshit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Repressed memory&#8221; was a convenient way for the lawyers to get over the hurdle of the Statute of Limitations so they could sue the pants off the Catholic Church. Nothing more, nothing less.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s interesting to note that the only reason the main accuser in the Great Mineola Sex Club Fantasy, Cantrell, got off was because he could not be legally charged with raping two little girls in his care while in California.</p>
<p>Now, the State of Texas has given him custody of three of the Mineola children, two of them girls, so he can resume his favorite pastime, all with the blessings of CPS and CASA. (If he thinks that is either Libel or Slander, perhaps he could hire Natalie to sue my ass off?) </p>
<p>As for the Missouri Caper; when it comes to the goons making statements, I&#8217;m reminded of a few they recently made.</p>
<p>&#8220;The children have an extraordinary amount of broken bones. These children have obviously been subjected to physical abuse.&#8221; (Cockerell on the floor of the Texas Legislature, never recanted, never apologized for.</p>
<p>&#8220;These are the worst child pornography pictures I have ever seen.&#8221; (Some flatfoot concerning two little girls in the bathtub taken by their mother in Tennessee.) </p>
<p>&#8220;Trust me David, I swear on my mother&#8217;s grave, you are not going to be attacked.&#8221; (The Sheriff of Waco talking to David Koresh just before they were all burned to death by the FBI and ATF.)</p>
<p>What they originally claim, and what reality turns out to be is generally two completely separate events. Only a cop can look at a rainbow and see Anarchy.</p>
<p>When is the last time you answered the phone and wrote a note on the closest thing to you?</p>
<p>If the notes end up being &#8220;Take Sally to the dentist at 10:00&#8243; I suggest that the note does not mean that their grandfather plans to rip all the kids teeth out for some S&#038;M fun.</p>
<p>Show me a 300 hundred pound dead man. Show me notes written by children and buried for 15 or 20 years, show me ANY pictures or video&#8217;s of these children involved in anything elicit, and THEN I&#8217;ll pat the goons on the back. </p>
<p>Until then, it&#8217;s bullshit stacked upon more bullshit.</p>
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		<title>By: Julie</title>
		<link>http://www.flds.ws/2009/11/18/mary-hartman-mary-hartman-the-kansas-city-kiddie-caper/#comment-65524</link>
		<dc:creator>Julie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 12:49:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.flds.ws/?p=1606#comment-65524</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Cupcake: The polilce claim that notes about family members were written on the magazines.&lt;/i&gt;

---
Could you link to your source?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Cupcake: The polilce claim that notes about family members were written on the magazines.</i></p>
<p>&#8212;<br />
Could you link to your source?</p>
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		<title>By: Cupcake</title>
		<link>http://www.flds.ws/2009/11/18/mary-hartman-mary-hartman-the-kansas-city-kiddie-caper/#comment-65491</link>
		<dc:creator>Cupcake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 02:53:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.flds.ws/?p=1606#comment-65491</guid>
		<description>Part of the reason why I am interested in the AMA's stance of recovered memories is because I have read several of Julie's posts in which she said that Warren Jeffs would have won the lawsuit Brent Jeffs filed against him if Warren had responded. 

Perhaps if Warren had responded, he might have helped others who have been falsely accused of abuse based on repressed memories. 

During my research, I learned that:

In 2003, California's Supreme Court struck down a California law that retroactively extended the statue of limitations for molestation cases. The law was passed during an era of hysteria over recovered memories and satan ritualistic abuse.

Elizabeth Loftus, a psychology and criminology professor at UC Irvine, stated, "I want to tell you that there are plenty of real sex abuse cases. Most never forget. They didn't tell anyone. These repressed memory cases trivialize the real abuse cases."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Part of the reason why I am interested in the AMA&#8217;s stance of recovered memories is because I have read several of Julie&#8217;s posts in which she said that Warren Jeffs would have won the lawsuit Brent Jeffs filed against him if Warren had responded. </p>
<p>Perhaps if Warren had responded, he might have helped others who have been falsely accused of abuse based on repressed memories. </p>
<p>During my research, I learned that:</p>
<p>In 2003, California&#8217;s Supreme Court struck down a California law that retroactively extended the statue of limitations for molestation cases. The law was passed during an era of hysteria over recovered memories and satan ritualistic abuse.</p>
<p>Elizabeth Loftus, a psychology and criminology professor at UC Irvine, stated, &#8220;I want to tell you that there are plenty of real sex abuse cases. Most never forget. They didn&#8217;t tell anyone. These repressed memory cases trivialize the real abuse cases.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Bill</title>
		<link>http://www.flds.ws/2009/11/18/mary-hartman-mary-hartman-the-kansas-city-kiddie-caper/#comment-65463</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 21:32:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.flds.ws/?p=1606#comment-65463</guid>
		<description>Cupcake (Lady),

You should have stuck to your original impression.

As a dyed in the wool New Yorker, Bill Medvecky not only does not shirk from contentious lawsuits, he welcomes them. I speak the truth, which some people cannot abide and want to claim "I'll sue you!".

I have never been successfully sued, so if there's anybody out there who wants to be the first, I'll send them my address once again.

I went on a cruise to the Bahama's, but I'm back now looking for the 300 pound dead man that those little girls killed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cupcake (Lady),</p>
<p>You should have stuck to your original impression.</p>
<p>As a dyed in the wool New Yorker, Bill Medvecky not only does not shirk from contentious lawsuits, he welcomes them. I speak the truth, which some people cannot abide and want to claim &#8220;I&#8217;ll sue you!&#8221;.</p>
<p>I have never been successfully sued, so if there&#8217;s anybody out there who wants to be the first, I&#8217;ll send them my address once again.</p>
<p>I went on a cruise to the Bahama&#8217;s, but I&#8217;m back now looking for the 300 pound dead man that those little girls killed.</p>
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		<title>By: Cupcake</title>
		<link>http://www.flds.ws/2009/11/18/mary-hartman-mary-hartman-the-kansas-city-kiddie-caper/#comment-65317</link>
		<dc:creator>Cupcake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 23:59:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.flds.ws/?p=1606#comment-65317</guid>
		<description>I forgot to mention that Burrell Mohler, Jr. is no longer a member of the LDS church. He was excommunicated several years ago for conduct that was not related to child abuse.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I forgot to mention that Burrell Mohler, Jr. is no longer a member of the LDS church. He was excommunicated several years ago for conduct that was not related to child abuse.</p>
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		<title>By: Cupcake</title>
		<link>http://www.flds.ws/2009/11/18/mary-hartman-mary-hartman-the-kansas-city-kiddie-caper/#comment-65316</link>
		<dc:creator>Cupcake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 23:56:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.flds.ws/?p=1606#comment-65316</guid>
		<description>In following the story of Mohlers, I came across the story of the murder of Susan Nason in 1969. Twenty years after the little girl ws found dead, her best friend Eileen Franklin told police that she remembered seeing her father, George Franklin, rape and murder Susan.

George Franklin was convicted of murder and spent 6 1/2 years in prison. His conviction was later overturned due to a technicality. When Eileen accused her father of killing her best friend, Mr. Franklin did not respond. The judge did not tell the jury that they should not assume Mr. Franklin's silence was a confession.

The Susan Nason case is interesting because it shows the weaknesses of recessed memories. In the 80's and 90's, many therapists convinced their patients that they were abused as children but did not remember it. Many patients only remembered being abused after they were hypnotized. Recessed memories can be influenced by what other people say or what is read in newspapers, etc. The AMA issued a statement that recessed memories should not be considered reliable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In following the story of Mohlers, I came across the story of the murder of Susan Nason in 1969. Twenty years after the little girl ws found dead, her best friend Eileen Franklin told police that she remembered seeing her father, George Franklin, rape and murder Susan.</p>
<p>George Franklin was convicted of murder and spent 6 1/2 years in prison. His conviction was later overturned due to a technicality. When Eileen accused her father of killing her best friend, Mr. Franklin did not respond. The judge did not tell the jury that they should not assume Mr. Franklin&#8217;s silence was a confession.</p>
<p>The Susan Nason case is interesting because it shows the weaknesses of recessed memories. In the 80&#8217;s and 90&#8217;s, many therapists convinced their patients that they were abused as children but did not remember it. Many patients only remembered being abused after they were hypnotized. Recessed memories can be influenced by what other people say or what is read in newspapers, etc. The AMA issued a statement that recessed memories should not be considered reliable.</p>
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