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	<title>Comments on: JOHNNIE HANNA, EXPERT ON &#8220;DISPUTED MINORS&#8221; AGES, USES SAME INFO TO DECLARE AGE OF RAYMOND AND JANET.</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.flds.ws/2009/10/29/johnnie-hanna-expert-on-disputed-minors-ages-uses-same-info-to-declare-age-of-raymond-and-janet/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.flds.ws/2009/10/29/johnnie-hanna-expert-on-disputed-minors-ages-uses-same-info-to-declare-age-of-raymond-and-janet/</link>
	<description>Defending Due Process, Religious Liberty, Human Rights, Constitutional Rights, and Freedom for the FLDS Community and All Of Us!</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 12 Mar 2010 16:38:52 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Cupcake</title>
		<link>http://www.flds.ws/2009/10/29/johnnie-hanna-expert-on-disputed-minors-ages-uses-same-info-to-declare-age-of-raymond-and-janet/#comment-61248</link>
		<dc:creator>Cupcake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 17:44:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.flds.ws/?p=1554#comment-61248</guid>
		<description>The story about the little Mormon girl being raped by her father on a holiday might be an urban legend. I first heard the story in California 19 years ago. In that version, the 12 year old girl was LDS, the man was her stepfather and the rape happened on Thanksgiving. In Flora's version, the 12 year old girl was FLDS, the man was her father and the rape happened on the fourth of July.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The story about the little Mormon girl being raped by her father on a holiday might be an urban legend. I first heard the story in California 19 years ago. In that version, the 12 year old girl was LDS, the man was her stepfather and the rape happened on Thanksgiving. In Flora&#8217;s version, the 12 year old girl was FLDS, the man was her father and the rape happened on the fourth of July.</p>
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		<title>By: *</title>
		<link>http://www.flds.ws/2009/10/29/johnnie-hanna-expert-on-disputed-minors-ages-uses-same-info-to-declare-age-of-raymond-and-janet/#comment-60731</link>
		<dc:creator>*</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 04:29:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.flds.ws/?p=1554#comment-60731</guid>
		<description>Brent said:

As a Mormon, with fundamentalist beliefs, I’d say that I fear the Church way more than the vocal idiots like Flora and her cult. I’ll take enemies like Flora any day. It’s an organization that has true political power, and many “servants” in the F.B.I. that gives me the creeps.

==============================================

I agree 100%.  Flora was probably abused by her father when she was young.  This resulted in her developing borderline personality disorder.  She is a very disturbed person - one who probably needs a lot of help.  It's probably easier for her to blame polygamy for her abuse than her family.  What's sad is she needs to realize her father would have abused her whether he married two women or not.  She needs to deal with the pain and grief of what her father did instead of transferring her anger to polygamists.

Who I blame are the Rangers and FBI agents.  These are professionals who should know how to assess people like Flora.

Shame on the LDS church for turning their backs on the FLDS.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brent said:</p>
<p>As a Mormon, with fundamentalist beliefs, I’d say that I fear the Church way more than the vocal idiots like Flora and her cult. I’ll take enemies like Flora any day. It’s an organization that has true political power, and many “servants” in the F.B.I. that gives me the creeps.</p>
<p>==============================================</p>
<p>I agree 100%.  Flora was probably abused by her father when she was young.  This resulted in her developing borderline personality disorder.  She is a very disturbed person - one who probably needs a lot of help.  It&#8217;s probably easier for her to blame polygamy for her abuse than her family.  What&#8217;s sad is she needs to realize her father would have abused her whether he married two women or not.  She needs to deal with the pain and grief of what her father did instead of transferring her anger to polygamists.</p>
<p>Who I blame are the Rangers and FBI agents.  These are professionals who should know how to assess people like Flora.</p>
<p>Shame on the LDS church for turning their backs on the FLDS.</p>
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		<title>By: kbp</title>
		<link>http://www.flds.ws/2009/10/29/johnnie-hanna-expert-on-disputed-minors-ages-uses-same-info-to-declare-age-of-raymond-and-janet/#comment-60667</link>
		<dc:creator>kbp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 00:42:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.flds.ws/?p=1554#comment-60667</guid>
		<description>Chritmas Jacobs,
&lt;I&gt;" So I think they made a pretty big assumption by starting with White European as a DNA starting point."&lt;/I&gt;
	
The only source I have seen that stated such was Ron.  I assumed he was just using that as an example, to which I pointed out how even that example does not solve the "inbreeding" problem.  I am not aware of any database that could supply data on that select group, but I would not be surprised if it is available.

Sorry if my comment was misleading there, and I'd appreciate it if it would be shared with me should anyone see a source that actually said something like this happened.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chritmas Jacobs,<br />
<i>&#8221; So I think they made a pretty big assumption by starting with White European as a DNA starting point.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>The only source I have seen that stated such was Ron.  I assumed he was just using that as an example, to which I pointed out how even that example does not solve the &#8220;inbreeding&#8221; problem.  I am not aware of any database that could supply data on that select group, but I would not be surprised if it is available.</p>
<p>Sorry if my comment was misleading there, and I&#8217;d appreciate it if it would be shared with me should anyone see a source that actually said something like this happened.</p>
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		<title>By: pins</title>
		<link>http://www.flds.ws/2009/10/29/johnnie-hanna-expert-on-disputed-minors-ages-uses-same-info-to-declare-age-of-raymond-and-janet/#comment-60666</link>
		<dc:creator>pins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 00:39:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.flds.ws/?p=1554#comment-60666</guid>
		<description>I like that one; SITTING BULLSHIT! 
(but illl be nice)TBM: how's the weather in Barbie land?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like that one; SITTING BULLSHIT!<br />
(but illl be nice)TBM: how&#8217;s the weather in Barbie land?</p>
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		<title>By: Bill</title>
		<link>http://www.flds.ws/2009/10/29/johnnie-hanna-expert-on-disputed-minors-ages-uses-same-info-to-declare-age-of-raymond-and-janet/#comment-60661</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 00:17:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.flds.ws/?p=1554#comment-60661</guid>
		<description>In today's atmoshere, and given the history, asking questions of the FLDS is akin to asking Jewish people questions.

None are ashamed of themselves or their religion, but history taught them that answering questions usually got them beat up, dead, or run out of town.

The greater majority of the FLDS who came into contact with the general public in Texas when their children were still in captivity, were met by friendly faces, and even people who offered them help. 

There were also those who were downright nasty and vicious, even to the little children. 

They have been treated like dirt in many cases, and it's going to take one hell of a lot for them to be open among strangers, that has always led to problems for them in the past. Now, we have an entire new generation of FLDS that will not forget the "Hospitality" of Texas anytime soon, so if they seem distant or overly protective of themselves, there is very good reason behind it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In today&#8217;s atmoshere, and given the history, asking questions of the FLDS is akin to asking Jewish people questions.</p>
<p>None are ashamed of themselves or their religion, but history taught them that answering questions usually got them beat up, dead, or run out of town.</p>
<p>The greater majority of the FLDS who came into contact with the general public in Texas when their children were still in captivity, were met by friendly faces, and even people who offered them help. </p>
<p>There were also those who were downright nasty and vicious, even to the little children. </p>
<p>They have been treated like dirt in many cases, and it&#8217;s going to take one hell of a lot for them to be open among strangers, that has always led to problems for them in the past. Now, we have an entire new generation of FLDS that will not forget the &#8220;Hospitality&#8221; of Texas anytime soon, so if they seem distant or overly protective of themselves, there is very good reason behind it.</p>
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		<title>By: Christmas Jacobs</title>
		<link>http://www.flds.ws/2009/10/29/johnnie-hanna-expert-on-disputed-minors-ages-uses-same-info-to-declare-age-of-raymond-and-janet/#comment-60653</link>
		<dc:creator>Christmas Jacobs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Oct 2009 23:07:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.flds.ws/?p=1554#comment-60653</guid>
		<description>So back to the paternity testing. 

My FLDS coworker is cordial but certainly not chatty. Occasionally I have a chance to ask her questions. I find that if I try to pin her down to individual circumstances she "doesn't really know", but often she'll answer more general questions. 

So I asked her, "Are most FLDS of European descent?"

Her reply. "Well, that with a strong thread of Native American Indian running thru most of the families. She noted that both the Jeffs families and Merril Jessops children are "more recently mingled with Indian blood than european" and that some of Merril's children look very black haired and indian looking". 

So I think they made a pretty big assumption by starting with White European as a DNA starting point. 

Yep!  Janet's little girl in that picture in NY Times does look like a little black braided maid. Come to think of it - Ray looks a little Indian himself.  And I haven't seen Janet - but it would be interesting to see if she has Native American features as well. 

An assumption based on an assumption based on an assumption of guilt.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So back to the paternity testing. </p>
<p>My FLDS coworker is cordial but certainly not chatty. Occasionally I have a chance to ask her questions. I find that if I try to pin her down to individual circumstances she &#8220;doesn&#8217;t really know&#8221;, but often she&#8217;ll answer more general questions. </p>
<p>So I asked her, &#8220;Are most FLDS of European descent?&#8221;</p>
<p>Her reply. &#8220;Well, that with a strong thread of Native American Indian running thru most of the families. She noted that both the Jeffs families and Merril Jessops children are &#8220;more recently mingled with Indian blood than european&#8221; and that some of Merril&#8217;s children look very black haired and indian looking&#8221;. </p>
<p>So I think they made a pretty big assumption by starting with White European as a DNA starting point. </p>
<p>Yep!  Janet&#8217;s little girl in that picture in NY Times does look like a little black braided maid. Come to think of it - Ray looks a little Indian himself.  And I haven&#8217;t seen Janet - but it would be interesting to see if she has Native American features as well. </p>
<p>An assumption based on an assumption based on an assumption of guilt.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill</title>
		<link>http://www.flds.ws/2009/10/29/johnnie-hanna-expert-on-disputed-minors-ages-uses-same-info-to-declare-age-of-raymond-and-janet/#comment-60650</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Oct 2009 22:51:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.flds.ws/?p=1554#comment-60650</guid>
		<description>I know that it is extremely difficult to avoid the scum on the SLT that spout this garage, but it is counterproductive to repeat it for them on other sites.

They are merely low life white trash verbalizing their own sexual fantasies, and don't have the balls to make these claims under their own name.

If you must go to these sites, than notify the owners that you consider them both slanderous and cowardly and they are actively contributing to it. 

Those with the lowest morals are about to be brought out into the open, and they can produce their 
evidence to a Court of Law when they are forced to defend their libel.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know that it is extremely difficult to avoid the scum on the SLT that spout this garage, but it is counterproductive to repeat it for them on other sites.</p>
<p>They are merely low life white trash verbalizing their own sexual fantasies, and don&#8217;t have the balls to make these claims under their own name.</p>
<p>If you must go to these sites, than notify the owners that you consider them both slanderous and cowardly and they are actively contributing to it. </p>
<p>Those with the lowest morals are about to be brought out into the open, and they can produce their<br />
evidence to a Court of Law when they are forced to defend their libel.</p>
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		<title>By: Brent Hartman</title>
		<link>http://www.flds.ws/2009/10/29/johnnie-hanna-expert-on-disputed-minors-ages-uses-same-info-to-declare-age-of-raymond-and-janet/#comment-60644</link>
		<dc:creator>Brent Hartman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Oct 2009 22:16:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.flds.ws/?p=1554#comment-60644</guid>
		<description>I just wanted to comment on the conversation between Bob and Cupcake.  From my perspective, as a fundamentalist who still has close ties with the LDS church (my children still go to primary every Sunday, and my dad is in the Bishopric of our Ward), I agree completely with Bob.  Gordon B. Hinckley clearly stated that plural marriage is "not doctrinal", and "it is now against the law of God".   Those are actual quotes.

Some of the old-timers in the Church still hold plural marriage as being doctrinal, but that number dwindles every day.

As a Mormon, with fundamentalist beliefs, I'd say that I fear the Church way more than the vocal idiots like Flora and her cult.  I'll take enemies like Flora any day.  It's an organization that has true political power, and many "servants" in the F.B.I. that gives me the creeps.

Does anyone really think Jeffs would have made it to the F.B.I.'s Most Wanted list if the L.D.S. church wasn't involved?  He performed a marriage ceremony on a minor.  That happens everyday in this country.  Can anyone point to a lessor crime that's ever made that list?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just wanted to comment on the conversation between Bob and Cupcake.  From my perspective, as a fundamentalist who still has close ties with the LDS church (my children still go to primary every Sunday, and my dad is in the Bishopric of our Ward), I agree completely with Bob.  Gordon B. Hinckley clearly stated that plural marriage is &#8220;not doctrinal&#8221;, and &#8220;it is now against the law of God&#8221;.   Those are actual quotes.</p>
<p>Some of the old-timers in the Church still hold plural marriage as being doctrinal, but that number dwindles every day.</p>
<p>As a Mormon, with fundamentalist beliefs, I&#8217;d say that I fear the Church way more than the vocal idiots like Flora and her cult.  I&#8217;ll take enemies like Flora any day.  It&#8217;s an organization that has true political power, and many &#8220;servants&#8221; in the F.B.I. that gives me the creeps.</p>
<p>Does anyone really think Jeffs would have made it to the F.B.I.&#8217;s Most Wanted list if the L.D.S. church wasn&#8217;t involved?  He performed a marriage ceremony on a minor.  That happens everyday in this country.  Can anyone point to a lessor crime that&#8217;s ever made that list?</p>
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		<title>By: Julie</title>
		<link>http://www.flds.ws/2009/10/29/johnnie-hanna-expert-on-disputed-minors-ages-uses-same-info-to-declare-age-of-raymond-and-janet/#comment-60643</link>
		<dc:creator>Julie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Oct 2009 22:15:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.flds.ws/?p=1554#comment-60643</guid>
		<description>And she claims to be Jewish, not Catholic or LDS.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And she claims to be Jewish, not Catholic or LDS.</p>
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		<title>By: Julie</title>
		<link>http://www.flds.ws/2009/10/29/johnnie-hanna-expert-on-disputed-minors-ages-uses-same-info-to-declare-age-of-raymond-and-janet/#comment-60641</link>
		<dc:creator>Julie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Oct 2009 22:10:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.flds.ws/?p=1554#comment-60641</guid>
		<description>She says she was voted "most likely to become a spy or mercenary" in high school. She certainly is a mercenary in this war against polygamy. Who's paying her? My guess is Dan Fischer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>She says she was voted &#8220;most likely to become a spy or mercenary&#8221; in high school. She certainly is a mercenary in this war against polygamy. Who&#8217;s paying her? My guess is Dan Fischer.</p>
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