Free the FLDS Children - AKA The Freedom Liberty Defenders Society

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1. Incidentally, I’ve read that the KKK no longer hates Catholics. It seems that they have transferred their hatred toward Mormons.

   1. Cupcake on October 24th, 2009 at 4:08 pm

2. Yes, Julie, I am familiar with the KKK’s hatred of Catholics. You see, my grandmother was a Protestant who married a Catholic near the turn of the century. It was considered a mixed marriage.

   When my mother was a little girl back in the twenties, her mother was very frightened of the KKK. My grandmother taught my mother that if anyone mentioned the KKK to change the subject. Because the KKK covered their faces, nobody knew who belonged to the KKK. My grandmother taught my mother not to say anything positive about the KKK because people would think you belonged to it. My grandmother also taught my mother not to say anything negative about the KKK because she might make herself a target of their hatred if she did.

   That explains why the KKK got away with mistreating and abusing their victims. People who were opposed to the KKK were too frightened to speak against them.

   2. Cupcake on October 24th, 2009 at 4:06 pm

3. Cupcake: I could not believe that anybody claiming to be a Christian would such vile things about anyone. Their comments only intensified my belief that the KS are a hate group.

   ——–

   The KS is reminiscent of the KKK during its revival in the twenties, except the KKK was more imaginative. Like the KS, they saw themselves as “moral, law-abiding citizens dedicated to political and civil reform, civic improvement, and the defense of traditional American values.” They hated Catholics, and wanted to Americanize them by closing Catholic schools and forcing them into public schools where they could obtain a Protestant education. They declared that they would tear “the prison walls down from the convents and nunneries.” And much like the KS does on blogs today, they sent out imposters on lecture tours who pretended they were former priests and nuns, saying the most awful things:

   “They were saying that the Catholic priests and nuns were having sexual relationships and they’d kill the babies. They’d have abortions . . . They ripped the stomachs of the nuns open and would take the baby.”

   The convents had cemeteries where they buried the murdered babies, according to the KKK, just as Flora now claims about the FLDS. The propaganda is the same, only the target has changed.

   3. Julie on October 24th, 2009 at 8:43 am

4. Christmas,

   I understand completely. I was not acquainted with Regina, but I did hear about her stroke. I also read some of the hateful comments that the KS made about her when she was recovering. I could not believe that anybody claiming to be a Christian would such vile things about anyone. Their comments only intensified my belief that the KS are a hate group.

   4. Cupcake on October 23rd, 2009 at 10:52 pm

5. Not I, Cupcake, I watched the Regina nearly kill herself trying to talk some sense into the ks, they love their own lies and opinions. I read Brookes posts but I NEVER comment and rarely
   the comments. Besides, I know the KS come here and read just as diligently as they do Brooke’s blog. The subject, just like Philip Kemp, will be a topic of discussion on her blog whether I mention it here or there. But u are certainly free to point it out there- the facts are for everyone.

   5. Christmas Jacobs on October 23rd, 2009 at 9:22 pm

6. Christmas Jacobs:

   You made a very good point about comparing exLDS gays wanting to take away the LDS church’s tax exempton to exFLDS members wanting to take over the UEP. I wish you would make this post on the SLT polygamy section. It might open the eyes of some of the LDS members who belong to or support the Kindred Spirits.

   6. Cupcake on October 23rd, 2009 at 8:55 pm

7. It all makes logical sense, however, you are forgetting their golden rule:

   They make the Laws, and you follow them.

   Since they made the Laws, THEY don’t have to!

   For example; A few years back, the City of Ft. Myers brought a Federal suit against a restaurant owner for failing to provide handicapped accessibility for his patrons.

   The owner pointed out that it was impossible to renovate the building without it costing millions of dollars, and no handicapped person had ever wanted access to “The sky bar” which was on the roof of the building.

   He also argued that many of the buildings downtown were not handicap accessible, including the very building he was standing in, the Federal Courthouse!

   The Federal Judge immediately informed him that the Courthouse was exempt from the Law because it would be too cost prohibitive to retro fit the building and promptly found him guilty.

   He closed the most tax productive business in downtown Ft. Myers the next morning.

   “The Law” is made for you and me, not for “Them”.

   7. Bill on October 23rd, 2009 at 8:33 pm

8. Well, the gays r pretty mad at the LDS Church for campaiging against making gay marriages legal in California. The SLTrib has run several stories about youths and couples that have been disowned by their families and church because they r gay. The LDS church has really been smacked around by gays and even some of their own members because of the stand the church has taken. (Hey want to sue the church and take away their religious tax exemption if they are going to act like a political lbby and raise money to fight gay legislation etc. Inaddition, they have hadf gay rights “kiss in” demonstrations by gay couples all over the nationa as a way to show their anger at the LDS church. So, as Rod Parker pointed out in the recent court filing, allowing the state to take over a rewligious organization and disgruntled exmembers to sue it and try to recover their consecrations etc, is not only unconstitutional, it is a dangesous precident for the state to set itself up as a mediator in religious disputes. So, as I pointed out before, the LDS justices are only protecting their own church against action against them by apostate gay church members, by ruling in favor of the FLDS….Not only is it the constitutional thing to do, it is the ONLY way to rule if they want to protect their own rights. Aint the constitution a grand document!

   8. Christmas Jacobs on October 23rd, 2009 at 8:17 pm

9. In which case it becomes a Federal Freedom of Religion fight in which the broad has to explain how her rulings did not target a specific group of individuals.

   9. Bill on October 23rd, 2009 at 7:14 pm

10. OR!!

    They can weasel out of it, and refuse to hear it again, just pussy foot around it as usual.

    10. BSSniffer on October 23rd, 2009 at 7:04 pm

11. I’m not following you. Please explain.

    11. Bill on October 23rd, 2009 at 6:25 pm

12. About the supreme court opinion on the UEP.

    Possibly the majority of the supreme court justices in Utah are LDS Mormons (I could be wrong-but I doubt it). Unless they rule against the takeover of the UEP, they will be setting the Mormon LDS church up for its own overtake and destruction by the gay community and exmembers who have been alienated from their families because they are gay.

    12. Christmas Jacobs on October 23rd, 2009 at 5:55 pm

13. I think Fischer’s other two wives he tossed in the garbage should also sue him under contract law.

    I’m not sure how it works in Utah but in California if a person you live with promises you half their income, or to share their income, in exchange for your household help, then you can sue them under contract law.

    13. * on October 23rd, 2009 at 1:03 pm

14. I consider the antipolygamy crowd’s calling the FLDS “racists” and “child molesters” to be very similar to the Nazis spreading rumors that Jews carried typhus.

    14. Cupcake on October 23rd, 2009 at 12:59 pm

15. Yes, Dan Fischer does owe a lot to the FLDS. He owes them for payng his way through college and dental school. I heard he invented his tooth whitening product in a barn. Do you think he would have become a millionaire if the FLDS hadn’t helped with his education?

    15. Cupcake on October 23rd, 2009 at 12:55 pm

16. Alot of people who scream “racist” and “child abuser”, in my opinion, are trying to compensate for inadequacies and failures in their own life. That’s not to say that there is some of that out there, but alot of these people need to get off their asses, do something, and stop blaming the racists and child abusers of this world.

    It’s unfortunate that Fischer can’t see how much he owes the FLDS for what he has become professionally and temporally. I don’t know all the details, but Jeffs in prison should be enough revenge for him. To keep at it like he is makes for a more sinister spirit around him.

    16. WC on October 23rd, 2009 at 11:20 am

17. Were I to be termed a “Racist” by the likes of Al Sharpton, Jessie Jackson Louis Farrakhan or the SPLC,
    I would consider the source and regard it as a high honor.

    How many tapes would it take of Calypso Louie describing the Jews as “Parasites” (He learned that one from his buddy, Adolf) before good old Mark decided that the “Nation of Islam” hates Jews?

    He and his organization is nothing more than a Jesse Jackson wannabe; a group that can extort money from nitwit white people who feel guilty about one tribe in Africa selling a rival tribe to the evil white men. Nobody went into the jungle and captured those folks, their “Brother’s” sold them into slavery.

    It was a lucrative business for them, and it flourishes even today.

    17. Bill on October 23rd, 2009 at 9:34 am

18. Wisan is a product of Fischer’s actions. Their focus is on one enemy and all that will stand behind him.

    —-
    Exactly. It’s Fischer behind the attack on the trust. Wisan is obviously in his pocket, and the judge must be too, for how logical is it that the court cannot return sacred land to the church that owns it because it’s polygamist, but then turn around and try to sell it to another polygamist group? So polygamy is just a legal smokescreen hiding their true purpose, which is Fischer’s hatred for Warren Jeffs.

    18. Julie on October 23rd, 2009 at 9:33 am

19. WC:
    ” I think they are focusing on the largest group, FLDS, and once they are decimated then move to the smaller groups till there really isn’t any organization or unity. “Scattering” is a word that comes to mind that seems like they are trying to do.”

    Wisan is a product of Fischer’s actions. Their focus is on one enemy and all that will stand behind him.

    19. kbp on October 23rd, 2009 at 9:03 am

20. About Mark Potok…

    I don’t have a problem with the SPLC’s listing the KKK chapters as “hate groups” because the KKK has a history of committing crimes that hurt Afro-Americans, Jews, Catholics, etc.

    I do have a problem with the SPLC’s listing churches as “hate groups” because of their religious ideology. I doubt that any of these churches actually committed hate crimes as the KKK did.

    For example, the SPLC lists Tony Alamo Ministeries as a “hate group” that “hates Catholics.” Tony Alamo Ministeries are Protestant. Catholics and Protestants have been arguing about religious dogma for about 500 years!

    If Tony Alamo’s church is a “hate group” because they “hate Catholics,” most Protestant churches are also “hate groups.”

    The SPLC lists churches that Mark Potok and his cronies dislike as “hate groups.” Instead of promoting tolerance, the SPLC promotes hatred and intolerance of religious minorities. The SPLC has become a hate group itself.

    20. Cupcake on October 23rd, 2009 at 12:01 am

21. Pliggy, have your father consult with a lawyer about getting reimbursed (or even taking full title) for paying those taxes. it might be possible in his state.

    21. Riki on October 22nd, 2009 at 7:59 pm

22. As we know, that just ain’t gonna happen, Tonto.

    22. Bill on October 22nd, 2009 at 7:30 pm

23. I think they are focusing on the largest group, FLDS, and once they are decimated then move to the smaller groups till there really isn’t any organization or unity. “Scattering” is a word that comes to mind that seems like they are trying to do.

    23. WC on October 22nd, 2009 at 6:49 pm

24. Lenore Holm was never “kicked out”. She moved out of her own free will and choice.

    24. JustMe on October 22nd, 2009 at 5:56 pm

25. Their whole scheme is to get rid of the FLDS. They don’t even care about the people in Centennial living plural marriage. And there are plenty of non-members living plural marriage who live on the UEP who were never bothered by Wisan, as far as I know.

    25. JustMe on October 22nd, 2009 at 5:53 pm

26. The K.S. mentioned Lenore Holms getting kicked out of the FLDS because she refused to force her 16 year old daughter to get married. They seem to think she is one of the non-FLDS living in Short Creek.

    26. Cupcake on October 22nd, 2009 at 5:50 pm

27. It is mostly the non-members who did not pay.

    —
    That’s what makes me wonder if it wasn’t part of a conspiracy, if Wisan didn’t tell them not to pay to put the parcels in danger.

    27. Julie on October 22nd, 2009 at 5:48 pm

28. It is mostly the non-members who did not pay. I don’t think Wisan even bothered them about taxes while at the same time he was sending Isaac around with eviction notices for all the members, even if they did pay taxes.

    28. JustMe on October 22nd, 2009 at 5:42 pm

29. Yes, I know Wyler is a non-member. But I was wondering if this was typical–if any non-members are paying taxes.

    29. Julie on October 22nd, 2009 at 5:42 pm

30. Julie,

    Wyler IS a non-member.

    30. BSSniffer on October 22nd, 2009 at 5:38 pm

31. I just found out that my father would have lost his home at the end of this month had he not been able to pay ISAAC WYLER’s property taxes. Seems they are in the same “parcel” and although my father has been paying the taxes on his lot and home, Isaac has not since 2007.

    Isaac, I believe, is still a goon for Wisan.

    —
    Are any of the non-members paying taxes? Perhaps this is a Wisan scam to put entire parcels up for grabs.

    31. Julie on October 22nd, 2009 at 5:16 pm

32. It sounds to me like a real good example of the shenanigans going on between brucie and the broad.

    I would document what happened and attached it to the Federal Lawsuit.

    Great to hear from you again,

    :)) GB

    32. Bill on October 22nd, 2009 at 4:45 pm

33. I would advise your father to send a registered notice to both of them advising them that he expects repayment WITH INTEREST.

    He should be able to put a lien on the property which will have to be paid if the land is sold. If the value exceeds the tax loan, your father becomes a larger landowner.

    33. Bill on October 22nd, 2009 at 4:43 pm

34. Howdy, been a while but I come and read once in a while.

    I just found out that my father would have lost his home at the end of this month had he not been able to pay ISAAC WYLER’s property taxes. Seems they are in the same “parcel” and although my father has been paying the taxes on his lot and home, Isaac has not since 2007.

    Isaac, I believe, is still a goon for Wisan.

    34. pliggy on October 22nd, 2009 at 3:45 pm

35. Potak is a reverse racist who will get his throat slit if his black friends ever get to rule the roost or if he shows his skin color in an inner City at the wrong time of the night.

    35. Bill on October 22nd, 2009 at 3:06 pm

36. Mark Potak could be categorized as a “thrill seeking retaliatory defender”.

    36. Christmas Jacobs on October 22nd, 2009 at 2:19 pm

37. I’m thinking thrill seekers. For thousands of years, probably millions, people sought retribution against people they perceived to be “different”.

    37. Alinusara10 on October 22nd, 2009 at 1:06 pm

38. I think the majority of the KS would fall under the category of “retaliators.” Most of the Texans would fall under the category of “defenders.”

    What do you think?

    38. Cupcake on October 22nd, 2009 at 12:37 pm

39. Here is some interesting information taken from an article on CNN news:

    ‘Jack McDevitt of Northeastern University’s Institute on Race and Justice said, “We all carry around biases with us, and it’s not the extraordinary monster that decides to act on it. Generally speaking, it’s someone more like us and our children than a member of the [Ku Klux] Klan.”

    Research conducted by both Levin and McDevitt shows that there are three major types of hate crime offenders:

    • “Thrill seekers” who look for excitement and power in attacking a person they perceive as different.

    • “Retaliators” who seek revenge for a real or perceived crime against someone similar to the attacker.

    • “Defenders” who are trying to protect their neighborhood or way of life.

    Perhaps the most expected type is also the rarest: an offender who may be a member of a group like the KKK and has a deep-seated hatred of a specific ethnic group.

    “Hate criminals, most of them young men, believe they are carrying out the fervent, unspoken wishes of their communities,” said Mark Potok, director of the Southern Poverty Law Center’s Intelligence Report.

    McDevitt says offenders often “believe other people share their biases … everybody feels the way they do, or at least the majority.” By taking action, he says, they think “they’re being heroic while others are scared.”‘

    This information explains the mentality of the K.S. It is most unfortunate that Mark Potok is contributing to hatred and intolerance of religious minorities by listing them as “hate groups.”

    39. Cupcake on October 22nd, 2009 at 12:30 pm

40. I read the entire article of Brooke’s.

    If there is anything she feels I have mis interpreted, I will be more than happy to correct the record.

    These jerks herald crap like “Bountiful school has been closed down”, and when they are proven to be ignorant
    liers, they claim they just got the info in an old article.

    When Brooke corrects them, (Forget about my instant posting of the truth on the 12th), they snidely tell her to get a “Retraction” from the original source.

    In my opinion, they use the Trib as a bully pulpit to constantly send out their hatred and bigotry against the FLDS and anyone who dares to defend them.

    The fact of the matter is that the Trib, and both Brooke and Trent report information that is vital to the FLDS people. They read what she says, and who doesn’t appreciate Trent’s pictures?

    The problem the FLDS has is that they will not subject themselves to the vitriolic hatred espoused by those who comment on the site.

    As with the FLDS, I read her pieces, but find it useless to comment, even if I wasn’t banned for supporting the FLDS from her blog.

    Because of what the State of Texas did to the children of the Ranch, I am passionate when it comes to protecting the FLDS. The very clear and stated objective is to drive them into extinction, every man, women and child.

    I don’t think I would have survived WW 11, because I most certainly would not have stood by as the ovens were packed full. To now expect me to stand by while they exterminate the FLDS is foolish on their part.

    I have zero tolerance for the Gestapo tactics used by the State and their supporters, and sometimes lash out at people perceived by me to support and encourage them.

    As more than a few of our commenters and members of the FLDS have pointed out to me, Brooke walks a fine line and sometimes goes a little too far over to the CS side for my personal liking.

    However, as the last few posts on her blog show, she goes after the facts and let’s the chips fall where they may. Right now, she’s getting skewered by the haters.

    As advised by my FLDS mentor, I will restrict my comments concerning Brooke to factual issue’s. As with my friend Thumper, “If I don’t have anything good to say, I won’t say anything at all.”

    40. Bill on October 22nd, 2009 at 12:13 pm

41. TBM just posts here to agitate us. Now that we are all aware of his ploy, his posts will lose their steam.

    41. Cupcake on October 22nd, 2009 at 12:10 pm

42. Like Wisan and Shurtleff, Malonis, Blues and Abbot r going to find out that they better enjoy all their High Fives while they last in the kangaroo courts, because when they get before judges who actually understand constitutional law and ideas like “separation of church and state”, then all their so called “wins” awarded by their pet judge become rather expensive liabilities.

    42. Christmas Jacobs on October 22nd, 2009 at 12:06 pm

43. I’m glad that the FLDS have appealed to the Utah Supreme Court. Based on what I have read at the SLT, most of Judge Lindberg’s rulings have been biased against the FLDS. This is a freedom of religion issue. Do we really want the state to have the right to seize control of religious trusts and to convert them to non-religious entities? If the state can do this to the FLDS, what’s to prevent the state from taking over other churches’ trusts too?

    Frankly, if a judge appointed a person whom I did not trust to manage my assets, I would appeal. I believe that most people would.

    43. Cupcake on October 22nd, 2009 at 11:56 am

44. And no only did Wisan pay an exmembee to take over the park, He likewise authorized and PAID Isaac Wyler to break into members homes and change the locks. Now he’s dpending money he’s gotton from selling FLDS property to defend himself and Wisan against the criminal charges Blues is trying to claim the FLDS are never gonna press. (BTW Blues, Wyler has already been charged and found guilty and Wisan’s next up). Of course Wisan can’t pay any taxes, he’s too busy paying people like Sam Brower and Wyler to commit crimes against FLDS members.!

    44. Christmas Jacobs on October 22nd, 2009 at 11:52 am

45. Blues doesn’t have anything to say, he’s just stopping in to call Bill a liar. But who is the actual liar here? As Brooke says, “I am still trying to sort out the information provided by Wisan’s office, which does not appear to match the money figures I have from the county.” The numbers don’t match, and Wisan is of the most highly paid accountants in Utah, if not the entire country. Odd, isn’t it?

    45. Julie on October 22nd, 2009 at 11:35 am

46. When the State decided to get into the Trust business, they accepted the financial responsibility. As Brooke pointed out, under brucie, there were no exemptions because the Trust was no longer a religious entity.

    The moment the FLDS was given back their park, they took it back off the tax rolls. So who’s the “Fiduciary” and who is the moron.

    It will be interesting to hear Denise explain to the Supreme Court how destroying the Trust and having the beneficiaries loose their homes “Protects” the assets of the Trust from mis-management.

    This situation is one more of the “We saved the Village, we destroyed it.” rationals used by Uncle Sam.

    46. Bill on October 22nd, 2009 at 10:57 am

47. Here’s a comment I made that the KSers ignored: if Wisan had money to put in his friends’ back pockets, he had money to pay the taxes. (Recall all the money he paid a buddy for “park maintenance,” yet how many days did it take the FLDS to clean the park which allegedly was being maintained? Or to his attorneys to wage war on the FLDS–the attorney’s term, not mine)

    There is no law that says you can’t pay the taxes on another’s property; in fact, in my state, if you do that for several years, you can take them to court to get reimbursed for it. I’m sure Utah & Arizona have similar provisions, so the SOB (his term) has no excuse for not paying the taxes.

    47. Riki on October 22nd, 2009 at 10:47 am

48. As to Brooke’s investigation of the tax situation, bravo. She caught Weaselly Wisan with taxes unpaid and his pockets stuffed with cash. The man belongs in jail along with the people who put him there to do a hatchet job on the trust.

    48. Julie on October 22nd, 2009 at 7:47 am

49. Megan Williams and Tawana Brawley had similar fabrications and recantations, but these are different incidents, linked only by the hysterical support of Al Sharpton. Then there’s Danmell Ndonye and Crystal Gail Mangum, also liars and whores. Elissa Wall might be added to that group one day, though she was likely hypnotized into believing her story by the ever helpful Dr. Beall.

    49. Julie on October 22nd, 2009 at 7:36 am

50. On another note. Ya’ll remember the poor girl in West Virginia that was beaten, raped and tortured by the 7 evil white folks?

    All 7 are in prison for a very long time.

    In the meantime, Tawanna Sharpton’s new girl says it was all BS, she made it up!

    I guess it’s Trick or Treat time.

    In the meantime, the AG of WV says that the folks who are in prison confessed to the crime.

    No, what they did was to agree to go to prison for 25 to life rather than life, no parole!

    These dumb snooks are going to die in prison because they didn’t want to spend the rest of their life there knowing they were going to get railroaded anyway.

    When are we EVER going to learn!

    50. Bill on October 22nd, 2009 at 5:06 am